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	<title>Comments on: EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way?</title>
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	<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/</link>
	<description>Practical Solutions for Environmental, Health &#38; Safety Professionals</description>
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		<title>By: EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? Part III - EHS Journal</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-58036</link>
		<dc:creator>EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? Part III - EHS Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-58036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] July 11, 2010, an article was published in the EHS Journal titled “EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way?”  That article was followed a year later by a sequel that explored the topic more fully.  The [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] July 11, 2010, an article was published in the EHS Journal titled “EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way?”  That article was followed a year later by a sequel that explored the topic more fully.  The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Classic Auditor Failures - EHS Journal</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-35933</link>
		<dc:creator>Classic Auditor Failures - EHS Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2012 00:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-35933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? (Cahill) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? (Cahill) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Repeat Versus Recurring Findings in EHS Audits - EHS Journal</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-27541</link>
		<dc:creator>Repeat Versus Recurring Findings in EHS Audits - EHS Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 16:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? (Cahill) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? (Cahill) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Environmental Audits Versus Health and Safety Audits - EHS Journal</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-24815</link>
		<dc:creator>Environmental Audits Versus Health and Safety Audits - EHS Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 22:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-24815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: T. C, Yap</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13428</link>
		<dc:creator>T. C, Yap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-13428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For a truly responsible auditor, it should be a professional practice to highlight any major concerns or potential disastrous risk that may occur for any of the site assessed. Regardless of what type of audit, compliance or any other specific evaluation, it should always be in the mind of a responsible good auditor to be on the look out, observe, or identify, events that may result in substantial impact to the company. 

Even it is not in the auditing programs or scope, possible major catastrophical events like solvent or dust explosion, long term or immediate environmental pollution or contamination, delay or long term accumulative effect on human health etc., the auditor should at the first opportunity, bring it to the attention of the site owner for his/her consideration for any further actions, where appropriate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a truly responsible auditor, it should be a professional practice to highlight any major concerns or potential disastrous risk that may occur for any of the site assessed. Regardless of what type of audit, compliance or any other specific evaluation, it should always be in the mind of a responsible good auditor to be on the look out, observe, or identify, events that may result in substantial impact to the company. </p>
<p>Even it is not in the auditing programs or scope, possible major catastrophical events like solvent or dust explosion, long term or immediate environmental pollution or contamination, delay or long term accumulative effect on human health etc., the auditor should at the first opportunity, bring it to the attention of the site owner for his/her consideration for any further actions, where appropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? A Sequel - EHS Journal</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-13077</link>
		<dc:creator>EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? A Sequel - EHS Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-13077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] July 11, 2010, an article titled “EHS Audits—Have We Lost Our Way?” was published in EHS Journal.[1]  It has since elicited a number of quite thoughtful and extensive [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] July 11, 2010, an article titled “EHS Audits—Have We Lost Our Way?” was published in EHS Journal.[1]  It has since elicited a number of quite thoughtful and extensive [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Using Risk Factors to Determine EHS Audit Frequency - EHS Journal</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-8625</link>
		<dc:creator>Using Risk Factors to Determine EHS Audit Frequency - EHS Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-8625</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] EHS Audits – Have We Lost Our Way? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Hileman</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-6454</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Hileman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-6454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great, thought-provoking article, Larry.  Good comments, Lawrence.  

A primary driver to do Auditing is to provide assurance - cover your......self, if you will.  It stands to reason that Auditing would also be undertaken to provide cover.  Contracts being what they are (and the risk/ consequence of dissatisfaction or litigation being what it is), they are also written to provide cover.  In auditing, it&#039;s all about the procedures, documentation, and reporting on everything that was done.  I supported financial audit procedures for a Big 4 accounting firm for ~6 years.  These folks know procedures!  If the procedures call for looking through fire extinguisher and waste accumulation areas, then that&#039;s&#039; what you&#039;ll get.  If you find two gaps out of two hundred, the auditor is duty-bound to report them. 

I like Larry&#039;s four examples, and would expand on his other two audit findings.  Fire extinguishers are perhaps my favorite litmus test of a company&#039;s EHS program.  I&#039;m always amazed at the inspection tags being up to date - but the fire extinguishers are obstructed, used as a coat hook, or placed directly over the stove so you would have to stick your arms through flames in order to retrieve it.  Or that 80% of the people in the area don&#039;t know where they are (ever notice those red arrows?) and nobody has the foggiest idea how to use one.  The area coordinator has dutifully completed 25 of 26 inspections.  Does s/he know what s/he is looking for?  Could these inspections be combined with three other inspections done in this area to reduce costs?  

If it&#039;s not &quot;compliance&quot;, it doesn&#039;t make the scope.  If it&#039;s not amenable to repeatable procedures, it doesn&#039;t get audited.  This is where we sell ourselves and our profession short.  The examples show shortcomings, and the need to avoid the obsession on compliance.  the examples illustrate how useful it would be to add elements of performance, operations, business continuity, efficiency/ effectiveness, and risk management.  And good old-fashioned common sense (which isn&#039;t all that common!).  These business advisory perspectives are at least as valuable to clients as detailed compliance audits.  

In the case of outsourced audits, the folly often begins with the RFP.   Selection criteria is driven by detailed scopes of work, standardized/ detailed output, and unit costs per auditor or per audit.   Cost-cutting reigns supreme - and not just in the EHS auditing world.  Savvy auditors often make the kind of observations that are &quot;missing in action&quot; in the examples above - but the framework of the report can limit or prohibit the auditor from telling the client.  I&#039;ve been in meetings where Legal would advise &quot;that observation is out of scope.  if you tell the client ONE observation like this, they could make the case that you were looking for EVERYTHING with this type of risk..... and did you?  were we paid to?  what if something else happens that you DIDN&#039;T tell them about - we&#039;ll get sued.  So stick to the audit finding about those two fire extinguishers&quot;  

The skill sets that are necessary to assess a broader array of risks and opportunities are a suite of business advisory techniques that cannot be fully conveyed in a proposal, and for which there is no standardized unit cost.  The qualifications can&#039;t be cut from one proposer, given to a lower-cost provider with the instruction to &quot;do it like this person&quot; - even with another $hundreds per audit.  

The freedom to set sights higher can begin with the Auditing Program Manager.  S/he may need support in conveying the value of this new approach to senior management - and the risks of taking the same old same old approach.  In scoping audits (should we use another word?) and selecting resources, s/he should build in flexibility and contingent budget. RFPs should be issued, and contracts written to encourage this perspective, and the open, trusting relationship that fosters thoughtful procedures and communications.   Furthermore, the Auditing Program Manager should be agile (see EHS Journal article on this - another good one) as to what elements of the report get communicated to whom, and how.  

In sum, I agree with Larry Cahill&#039;s premise that, in some ways, EHS auditors have lost our way.  But we didn&#039;t get their by ourselves.  As any EMS or Enterprise Risk Management framework would say, it all begins with tone at the top.  &quot;The Top&quot; may only know what we tell them.  Let&#039;s all work on it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great, thought-provoking article, Larry.  Good comments, Lawrence.  </p>
<p>A primary driver to do Auditing is to provide assurance &#8211; cover your&#8230;&#8230;self, if you will.  It stands to reason that Auditing would also be undertaken to provide cover.  Contracts being what they are (and the risk/ consequence of dissatisfaction or litigation being what it is), they are also written to provide cover.  In auditing, it&#8217;s all about the procedures, documentation, and reporting on everything that was done.  I supported financial audit procedures for a Big 4 accounting firm for ~6 years.  These folks know procedures!  If the procedures call for looking through fire extinguisher and waste accumulation areas, then that&#8217;s&#8217; what you&#8217;ll get.  If you find two gaps out of two hundred, the auditor is duty-bound to report them. </p>
<p>I like Larry&#8217;s four examples, and would expand on his other two audit findings.  Fire extinguishers are perhaps my favorite litmus test of a company&#8217;s EHS program.  I&#8217;m always amazed at the inspection tags being up to date &#8211; but the fire extinguishers are obstructed, used as a coat hook, or placed directly over the stove so you would have to stick your arms through flames in order to retrieve it.  Or that 80% of the people in the area don&#8217;t know where they are (ever notice those red arrows?) and nobody has the foggiest idea how to use one.  The area coordinator has dutifully completed 25 of 26 inspections.  Does s/he know what s/he is looking for?  Could these inspections be combined with three other inspections done in this area to reduce costs?  </p>
<p>If it&#8217;s not &#8220;compliance&#8221;, it doesn&#8217;t make the scope.  If it&#8217;s not amenable to repeatable procedures, it doesn&#8217;t get audited.  This is where we sell ourselves and our profession short.  The examples show shortcomings, and the need to avoid the obsession on compliance.  the examples illustrate how useful it would be to add elements of performance, operations, business continuity, efficiency/ effectiveness, and risk management.  And good old-fashioned common sense (which isn&#8217;t all that common!).  These business advisory perspectives are at least as valuable to clients as detailed compliance audits.  </p>
<p>In the case of outsourced audits, the folly often begins with the RFP.   Selection criteria is driven by detailed scopes of work, standardized/ detailed output, and unit costs per auditor or per audit.   Cost-cutting reigns supreme &#8211; and not just in the EHS auditing world.  Savvy auditors often make the kind of observations that are &#8220;missing in action&#8221; in the examples above &#8211; but the framework of the report can limit or prohibit the auditor from telling the client.  I&#8217;ve been in meetings where Legal would advise &#8220;that observation is out of scope.  if you tell the client ONE observation like this, they could make the case that you were looking for EVERYTHING with this type of risk&#8230;.. and did you?  were we paid to?  what if something else happens that you DIDN&#8217;T tell them about &#8211; we&#8217;ll get sued.  So stick to the audit finding about those two fire extinguishers&#8221;  </p>
<p>The skill sets that are necessary to assess a broader array of risks and opportunities are a suite of business advisory techniques that cannot be fully conveyed in a proposal, and for which there is no standardized unit cost.  The qualifications can&#8217;t be cut from one proposer, given to a lower-cost provider with the instruction to &#8220;do it like this person&#8221; &#8211; even with another $hundreds per audit.  </p>
<p>The freedom to set sights higher can begin with the Auditing Program Manager.  S/he may need support in conveying the value of this new approach to senior management &#8211; and the risks of taking the same old same old approach.  In scoping audits (should we use another word?) and selecting resources, s/he should build in flexibility and contingent budget. RFPs should be issued, and contracts written to encourage this perspective, and the open, trusting relationship that fosters thoughtful procedures and communications.   Furthermore, the Auditing Program Manager should be agile (see EHS Journal article on this &#8211; another good one) as to what elements of the report get communicated to whom, and how.  </p>
<p>In sum, I agree with Larry Cahill&#8217;s premise that, in some ways, EHS auditors have lost our way.  But we didn&#8217;t get their by ourselves.  As any EMS or Enterprise Risk Management framework would say, it all begins with tone at the top.  &#8220;The Top&#8221; may only know what we tell them.  Let&#8217;s all work on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-2801</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-2801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Early in my career as an engineering geologist I was asked to evaluate hazards and risks from natural and manmade hazards for Los Angeles County. Earthquake risk to buildings and structures, flood risk from everything from debris flows to failed dams, risks from wild land fire and even the petroleum processing facilities built adacent to active or potentially active faults. The objective was to evaluate planning controls, current building codes and disaster planning. Then, as now as an ES&amp;H auditor, raising issues of deeper risks than compliance is easier than getting the audit client to accept conclusions of a study or a preliminary finding result. With no regulatory requirement, I pointed out 25 years ago that a fault under a populated area in San Fernando Valley posed a threat but could not prove the fault was active because development had removed the ability to test whether it had moved in 10,000 years. The &quot;study&quot; client assumed innocent until proven guilty. The Northridge fault turned out to be active in 1994. Now, as an auditor, I recenly noted that a 300,000 gallon tank filled with motor oil for experiments that involve explosive shocks had oil leaking on the floor. Turns out everybody&#039;s known about the cause: a growing crack in the tank wall. Raised as an issue, the audit client explains away the problem: the costly solution seemed to bolster their belief that it was not a risk. My manager stated there is no requirement, so the issue became only an observation in the audit report. At about the same time, an accident occurred on an experimental sled track nearly severing the leg of an operator when a missle pre-ignited. A very heavily audited organization, turns out one of the causes of the accident was a short-circuit caused by excessive rust on the track. Had any auditor ever brought up the rust? I don&#039;t know, but do know that the auditors frequently gave the operation best practices for work controls. Point number one: auditors may bring up fundamental risks, but if the culture of the audit client is innocent until proven guilty, the auditor (or investigator) will have no effect accept to raise the issue. Number two: As an auditor, I may not have even realized the risk posed by the rust on the tracks in forsight. Number three: the reality is that the organization&#039;s culture is ultimately responsible for questioning and taking action on &quot;soft&quot; risks.  Perhaps the auditor could be convincing with a cost-benefit argument but is that realistic given the audit scope and budget? In conclusion, the audit program must not abandon risk-based auditing during compliance or performance audits, but recognize the realitiy that until audit clients are convinced by intensive studies of what&#039;s in it for them, we walk a lonely road.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Early in my career as an engineering geologist I was asked to evaluate hazards and risks from natural and manmade hazards for Los Angeles County. Earthquake risk to buildings and structures, flood risk from everything from debris flows to failed dams, risks from wild land fire and even the petroleum processing facilities built adacent to active or potentially active faults. The objective was to evaluate planning controls, current building codes and disaster planning. Then, as now as an ES&amp;H auditor, raising issues of deeper risks than compliance is easier than getting the audit client to accept conclusions of a study or a preliminary finding result. With no regulatory requirement, I pointed out 25 years ago that a fault under a populated area in San Fernando Valley posed a threat but could not prove the fault was active because development had removed the ability to test whether it had moved in 10,000 years. The &#8220;study&#8221; client assumed innocent until proven guilty. The Northridge fault turned out to be active in 1994. Now, as an auditor, I recenly noted that a 300,000 gallon tank filled with motor oil for experiments that involve explosive shocks had oil leaking on the floor. Turns out everybody&#8217;s known about the cause: a growing crack in the tank wall. Raised as an issue, the audit client explains away the problem: the costly solution seemed to bolster their belief that it was not a risk. My manager stated there is no requirement, so the issue became only an observation in the audit report. At about the same time, an accident occurred on an experimental sled track nearly severing the leg of an operator when a missle pre-ignited. A very heavily audited organization, turns out one of the causes of the accident was a short-circuit caused by excessive rust on the track. Had any auditor ever brought up the rust? I don&#8217;t know, but do know that the auditors frequently gave the operation best practices for work controls. Point number one: auditors may bring up fundamental risks, but if the culture of the audit client is innocent until proven guilty, the auditor (or investigator) will have no effect accept to raise the issue. Number two: As an auditor, I may not have even realized the risk posed by the rust on the tracks in forsight. Number three: the reality is that the organization&#8217;s culture is ultimately responsible for questioning and taking action on &#8220;soft&#8221; risks.  Perhaps the auditor could be convincing with a cost-benefit argument but is that realistic given the audit scope and budget? In conclusion, the audit program must not abandon risk-based auditing during compliance or performance audits, but recognize the realitiy that until audit clients are convinced by intensive studies of what&#8217;s in it for them, we walk a lonely road.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Stuckey</title>
		<link>http://ehsjournal.org/http:/ehsjournal.org/lawrence-b-cahill/ehs-audits-have-we-lost-our-way-bp-massey/2010/comment-page-1/#comment-2412</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Stuckey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ehsjournal.org/?p=1026#comment-2412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Risk in hindsight is obvious, while looking forward and raising potential issues can cause an auditor to be labeled &#039;Henny-Penny.&#039;  This unfortunate reality can cause internal or consultant auditors to focus on black and white findings (e.g., administrivia) at the expense focusing on real issues - after all, that is what agency auditors tend to look for and issue penalties for.  Compliance audits have tended to be administrative audits more than most professionals would like to admit, and the commoditization of audits has only reinforced the trend.  

The major food label who proudly shaved the cost of audits of subcontract food processor to $1,500/ea realized that $1,500/ea was wasted when a salmonella outbreak (at a recently audit subcontractor) resulted in a national product recall and a PR disaster for the food label.  Rat and pigeon droppings observed in the rafters didn&#039;t register as a black and white risk to the peanut processing line below, so the auditor decided against raising such a Henny-Penny finding.

Company executives and board members should reconsider whether their compliance audit programs are capable of delivering information of suitable quality to assess whether risks (beyond the administrative) are managed within acceptable limits.  What are the top 10 EHS risks to the corporate enterprise?  Is the audit program designed to probe these issues?  Are professionals capable of assessing those risks involved in the process and signatories to audit reports?  If the answers to these questions aren&#039;t known, the audit program may have lost its way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Risk in hindsight is obvious, while looking forward and raising potential issues can cause an auditor to be labeled &#8216;Henny-Penny.&#8217;  This unfortunate reality can cause internal or consultant auditors to focus on black and white findings (e.g., administrivia) at the expense focusing on real issues &#8211; after all, that is what agency auditors tend to look for and issue penalties for.  Compliance audits have tended to be administrative audits more than most professionals would like to admit, and the commoditization of audits has only reinforced the trend.  </p>
<p>The major food label who proudly shaved the cost of audits of subcontract food processor to $1,500/ea realized that $1,500/ea was wasted when a salmonella outbreak (at a recently audit subcontractor) resulted in a national product recall and a PR disaster for the food label.  Rat and pigeon droppings observed in the rafters didn&#8217;t register as a black and white risk to the peanut processing line below, so the auditor decided against raising such a Henny-Penny finding.</p>
<p>Company executives and board members should reconsider whether their compliance audit programs are capable of delivering information of suitable quality to assess whether risks (beyond the administrative) are managed within acceptable limits.  What are the top 10 EHS risks to the corporate enterprise?  Is the audit program designed to probe these issues?  Are professionals capable of assessing those risks involved in the process and signatories to audit reports?  If the answers to these questions aren&#8217;t known, the audit program may have lost its way.</p>
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